Intuitive Artist Donna Spatidol and Being 'Exactly Where We Are Supposed to Be' - #07

I interviewed Donna Spatidol, who is an intuitive artist. She sold her home on the US East Coast and is currently travelling. We spoke about her art journey from high school age, self-discovery via a business course, being widowed, art as therapy, living a solitary life, and the search for a home base again...

"I am learning that home is right here. Where I am. Home is in my heart. Home is who I'm with. And a lot of times, most of the time it's with myself."

Find out more about Donna and connect with her at https://www.instagram.com/spatidol/

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/wa6I1PH3qlw

00:05:10 - Recent challenges as an artist
00:13:49  - Significance of peanut butter & jelly sandwiches
00:16:00 - Dancing it out on social media
00:18:42 - Loving your art like you love yourself
00:23:13 - The grieving process
00:29:58 - Choosing art
00:32:10 - Not receiving positive encouragement in art journey
00:41:42 - Peter Crone
00:43:43 - Art as therapy
00:54:05 - Importance of the creative workspace
01:00:47 - Home

Chapters

• 6:25 Recent challenges as an artist
• 14:21 Peanut Butter & Jelly Sandwiches
• 16:32 Dancing it out on social media
• 19:14 Love your art like you love yourself
• 20:45 The grieving process
• 30:30 Choosing art
• 32:42 Not receiving positive encouragement
• 42:14 Peter Crone
• 54:37 Importance of the creative workspace
• 1:01:19 Home

Transcript

Donna Spatidol: [00:00:00] I have a Beautiful friend who I met, um, on social media, who's an artist who taught me to love my art like I love myself. I think before I was taught to judge, I think we're as artists and musicians and anyone in the arts as people, we judge ourselves and we judge our art. And she taught me to, um. to treat my art like myself or like my children and you wouldn't, you know, be nasty to your children. 

So I used to just walk into my studio before this shift and I would be, you know, Oh God, like that's ridiculous and whatever. I would, I would just judge it. I would be nasty to it. And I started walking into my studio and just sending love. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're so beautiful. You look great today. I'm going to work on you later and just like talk to it like it's a breathing living thing and kind of maybe like people talk to their plants. 

So it was a shift for me to be kind to my art. Riding [00:01:00] high amongst the waves I can feel like I Have a soul that has been saved I can see the light Coming through the clouds in rays I gotta say it now Better loud than too late 

Genevra Siciliano: Hello, Donna.  
 

Donna Spatidol: Hello, Jennifer.  

Genevra Siciliano: You still can't say my name right, bless you. Did  

Donna Spatidol: I 
 

Genevra Siciliano: not say your name right? Yeah, you  

Donna Spatidol: That's what I, I don't, I'm not enunciating, I don't enunciate very well. Jen, do you want me to, should I  

Genevra Siciliano: edit this part out?  

Donna Spatidol: Gen [00:02:00] Jennifer? Yeah. Like that. Jen. Jennifer,  

Genevra Siciliano: Jen. Yeah. So you miss your, I think you miss a syllable, Jennifer say much. But you know what? A lot of people say it  

Donna Spatidol: the same way when I say it fast. 

I think I miss the, the v Jennifer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I lose the V if I have my jersey accent, Jennifer. 

Genevra Siciliano: I'm with my friend Donna, Donna, do you want me to edit that part out or is this part of the interview?  

Donna Spatidol: Whatever you want. You just.  

Genevra Siciliano: I think it's quirky. Um, all right. Let's  

Donna Spatidol: just try my name now. Try my name.  

Genevra Siciliano: Hello Donna Spatadol, my friend Donna, my free as a bird artist friend Donna from the U S. East coast and apparently seven is your lucky number. 

Donna Spatidol: I, I noticed that seven was my lucky number, [00:03:00] is my lucky number. Is  

Genevra Siciliano: it? Because I just, I threw that in because this is episode seven.  

Donna Spatidol: I already, I knew that. I saw that when I was like, listen, I was listening to your, um, and I was like, Ooh, if, if she doesn't squeeze one in between, I'm lucky number seven. I like that. 

Genevra Siciliano: Thank you for, for saying yes to being interviewed today.  

Donna Spatidol: Thank you for asking me. Yeah, absolutely. Scary and exciting at the same time. If you want to  

Genevra Siciliano: see the video version of Donna and I, we're also on YouTube, so you can head to YouTube and just search on Better Loud Than Too Late or at IamGeneva and that way you can watch. 

the video version of this interview. So I think I said before that you're an artist and I, you know, obviously I want to get into your art [00:04:00] journey, but before we do that, um, how would you describe your artistic journey? Style.  

Donna Spatidol: Oh gosh, that's a loaded question. I, my artistic style now is quite different than my artistic style when I first started my art journey, which was in high school. 

So my style then was find a pretty picture and copy it. And if you copied it perfectly, then you're an artist and then it can be displayed. But as I, um, matured and only recently, probably in the last five years and lots of things led up to that. But, um, Now my art is more intuitive, so I basically paint what I feel rather than what I say. 

[00:05:00] So I, I've totally kind of shifted how I do that and given myself permission to do that because I definitely was trying to follow the rules of what Artists are supposed to do and that was yeah, so now i'm just my my art is I usually start with a blank canvas and I journal or set an intention or a prayer on my canvas And then I paint over that And nine times out of 10, it disappears. 

Sometimes some of it will come through. And so, but it's not, the point of it isn't so that it comes through. It's just to set an intention and to kind of like clear any space that I might have in my head or my heart and, and just, um, go from there. So totally different than where I was 40 years ago. Okay. 

Genevra Siciliano: And. And so what, what are some of your recent challenges as an artist?  

Donna Spatidol: [00:06:00] Oh gosh, recent challenges as an artist, accepting that, that, that I am an artist is a huge challenge because that, uh, even saying like, I haven't only have recently been able to say like those words that I'm an artist because it, I think the generation where at least the way I was raised and the generation, I think my generation was. 

You had to be told by somebody else who were an artist and I don't believe that anymore. I believe that everybody's an artist and if you want to call yourself an artist, you can call yourself an artist. Mm  

Genevra Siciliano: hmm. Um, and is that though, is that a bit about imposter syndrome or is that more about income? 

Like if you, you know, if you're not paying your bills as an artist, then you're a bit reluctant. 

Donna Spatidol: Uh, probably a little bit of both [00:07:00] imposter syndrome and a little bit of yeah, cause when I was, um, when I wanted to pursue the arts, uh, when I was going to college, it was, you know, you can't make a living, start the whole starving artist. So I definitely, um, Chose a safer path when I after I graduated in college I chose to get into the graphic arts and Become an art director and go that route rather than be a starving artist And so I played it safe basically for 40 years  

Genevra Siciliano: Hmm. 
 

Yeah.  

Donna Spatidol: Yes Yeah, and I felt that yeah, I really felt In all the positions I had that I was just kind of doing what society told me I should do. Mm hmm. And that's okay. Yeah.  

Genevra Siciliano: Yeah. So, [00:08:00] you and I have never met, like, which is a total tragedy in itself because it feels like we've met. Absolutely. Um, and. Let's talk about how we connected. 

Yeah. So we did a, uh, a business course, see Me, business course together. Um, it was, you know, it was pretty much a, a how to find your thing and make money from it. Course, wasn't it? Is that how it was sold?  

Donna Spatidol: Yeah, that's, yeah. Definitely. To, yeah. Find your thing for sure. Yep.  

Genevra Siciliano: Now that ended up being a pretty expensive course for me. 

Did you, did you find it worthwhile for you?  

Donna Spatidol: Um, I agree that it was expensive, like the most expensive besides for me college. I know you guys don't call it college. What do you call it? What do you call it? University. [00:09:00] University. Yeah. Yeah. So, college here in the States. We call it college even though you're at a university a lot of the times, but, um, so besides college slash university, it was the most expensive thing I did after that. 

And that's many years. I mean, yeah. So I, it was a huge investment and I just felt like it was something I was supposed to do. Like I, when I made the decision to do it, I don't even know how I found, found it, probably like you, like just kind of appeared when it was supposed to. So I found it beneficial because of a couple of things. 

The friendships that I've made are to me like priceless. And I remember saying that very early on probably week three and what was it like a 12, it was 12 weeks, right? It was all, all summer, like two, two summers ago. And I remember reaching out to, um, to the person running the course, which I don't know if we want to, we want to talk about that, but that's okay. 

[00:10:00] Um, and I just told her that it was worth every penny for the people that I've met. Like to me, that's price. You can't put a price on that. And then, um, I got courage to. I mean, she definitely gave me permission to do things messy, which I'm a perfectionist. So doing things messy wasn't even like, I hadn't even ever heard of that. 

That was like, don't do it unless it's perfect is the way I was raised for sure.  

Genevra Siciliano: You're probably right. I don't think I really heard it as heard that phrase as often as I did until I did that course. And I just want to quickly say that you, that must've, um, I guess it's kind of a philosophy, but you really took that on because you always remark, cause I'm a perfectionist too. 

And you've always been one to remind me when I'm getting in that zone and I'm like obsessing over details. You will always say to me like, Hey. What happened to doing it [00:11:00] messy? So yeah, I always get that from you, which is great.  

Donna Spatidol: Yeah, that was the, uh, probably the biggest lesson because I wouldn't have, like, when I started that course, I did not share my art on social media. 

Rarely. Like I, it had to be like, here's my beautiful masterpiece before I shared it on social media. So up to that point, maybe I shared like. I don't know, five or 10 times in like a few years because I just didn't feel worthy. I didn't feel I was worthy. I didn't feel, uh, my artwork was worthy and she gave me the courage to, I wouldn't be where I am with my, with my art. 

And with sharing my art, I wouldn't be where I am. That's the biggest gift. If I don't like the mud to me, the money that made it worth the money to have the courage to say that I am an artist and [00:12:00] it doesn't have to be perfect. And that it's the world needs it, like I'm worthy of that and I didn't have that message from teachers or family members, you know, growing up. 

Genevra Siciliano: I think, um, what I mainly got out of it was just that the reinforcement of just trying anything and everything like fearlessly, but then just paying attention to what brings me joy. Like, I think that was, that was, uh, it was more like a reinforcement. Some of it, you know, you know it already, but you just need to pay a lot of money to hear someone tell you, yeah, that's why it was a reinforcement for me. 

But you know, just on that, the course got us doing like different and. Out of your comfort zone things on, on social media, especially. Yeah,  

Donna Spatidol: I [00:13:00] definitely wouldn't have shared like lives or other things that I did on social media. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of how you and I met, like not met, but connected more when you did your 'Baci' lives, which I love. 

Genevra Siciliano: Thank you. Yeah. When I was going on, yeah, live on Instagram and yeah.  

Donna Spatidol: I mean, we knew, we knew of each other, but that's when I like fell in love with you. And I was like, this, she's so adorable. And I loved it. I loved it. I loved every, I looked forward to it.  

Genevra Siciliano: Uh, you were like my biggest supporter, it was beautiful. 

And um, and I remember the moment I fell in love with you Donna, it was the, the peanut butter video. Do you want to tell us what you said?  

Donna Spatidol: Yeah, that was the peanut butter and jelly video, which it was, and I did that video because of the course that we took together [00:14:00] because we were supposed to, I think like do a live maybe, I'm not sure how often, but I don't know, once a week or something in that, in that particular week that we were in the course. 

I think we were supposed to go live so many times and it was scary for me to go live on Instagram. Like I'd rather stick needles in my eyes. Like it makes you want to throw up. But, um, but I did, I think I went out in my studio and I just told a story about, um, after my husband passed away. Um, I'm a widow and he passed away. 

Um, it was just 20 years ago. And so this was. Probably two years ago when I did the live, but it was just telling the story about, um, after he passed and how I struggled to get out of bed every day. Um, and how, um, 

the thing that got me out of bed was that [00:15:00] I had to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for my kids. And it was just like, okay, get up. Make the PB& Js and do the best you can. And so peanut butter and jelly was something that like helped me through my grief and nourished my kids at the same time. 

Genevra Siciliano: Yeah, you were in, in the studio. So, you know, I've got. I could see you in your, in your surroundings and you had the whole artist thing going on. So that, that helped being able to place you in your environment in my mind, but it was just your smile, your smile. And like the, obviously the words, it just opened up my heart because you've got this, this infectious smile that just lights up the screen. 

It's just the most beautiful thing. Thank you. Very sweet. So yeah, and then like you said, we were doing weird, weird and wonderful things on social media and you had like a dancing [00:16:00] series  

Donna Spatidol: as well. I did do a Saturday morning dancing series, which was part of that. That was like doing something scary again, something that, that I like to dance, but I wouldn't necessarily dance on social media, but I saw someone else's. 

Do it. Who encouraged me, not encouraged me. It was someone I didn't even know, but I saw him doing it and I was like, well, I want to do that. Like, why can't I do that? So I started doing Saturday morning dance videos. And, um, yeah, it was just, it was freeing. It was liberating. It I've jumped just at an age where it doesn't matter if people think you're crazy. 

Cause I already know that I'm crazy and I'm weird. So, um, why not have fun? And so I just. Started doing it and the songs were never premeditated. Like I didn't like look for song, it would, I would just wake up that day and either a song would come on, you know, my, my phone, or I would think of a song or there was, you know, [00:17:00] and it would just present itself that way. 

So it wasn't premeditated. Um, I looked forward  

Genevra Siciliano: to those videos that were like, I mean. Sometimes your choice of music was questionable, but that's okay. Wasn't about the music. It was more about, Oh, what's Donna going to wear today? And I'm only joking. Um, it was just, you know, and cause you had different moods as well. 

Sometimes I could tell from the way you were dancing. I'm like, ah, Donna's in that kind of mood.  

Donna Spatidol: Sometimes I was cranky and I didn't want to do it. And that was, and I would force, I would force myself to do it. And I always felt better after you always feel better after you move your body. So yeah, I might have to start that again, but yeah, yeah, it was fun. 

And you guys kept me accountable. I feel like I, there were certain people who were like, wait a minute, it's like past 1230, where's the morning video. So it was kind of fun to have that accountability. Um, I live on my own, so. It was a way to connect. I mean, I think social media has some like great, there's some like, we wouldn't [00:18:00] have met if it weren't for social media. 

So as much as sometimes it gets a bad rap, there's some good things. And it connected me to people that live really far away, like you in Australia that I wouldn't connect with. I  

Genevra Siciliano: tried, I was inspired. I'm like, you know what, I'm going to try it. And I set up the phone on a, you know, a tripod and I did one, I recorded it. 

And then I just looked at myself and went, you're a fucking idiot. This isn't going anywhere. Did not work for  

Donna Spatidol: me. And I would nine times out of 10 do one take too, because if you look at it. You're going to not, you're not going to post it. So I would not, I would not think, and I would hit, hit post and I'd walk away, you know? 

So, and that's kind of how I am with my artwork too, is I don't, I don't judge it. Um, I have a beautiful friend who I met, um, on social media, who's an artist who taught me to love my art, like I love myself. I think before I was taught to judge, I [00:19:00] think we're As artists and musicians and anyone in the arts as people, we judge ourselves and we judge our art. 

And she taught me to, um, to treat my art like myself or like my children. And you wouldn't, you know, be nasty to your children. So I used to just walk into my studio before this, um, Shift and I would be like, Oh God, like that's ridiculous and whatever I would, I would just judge it. I would be nasty to it. 

And I started walking into my studio and just sending love. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're so beautiful. You look great today. I'm going to work on you later. And just like talk to it. Like it's a breathing, living thing and kind of maybe like people talk to their plants. So it was a shift for me to be kind to my art. 

And it has helped. Yeah, it's a  

Genevra Siciliano: couple of episodes ago. I chatted to my, my friend Bridget, who's the end of life. And, and we spoke about [00:20:00] grief and, um, you know, you, you, you gave me your thoughts on, on that episode, which I really appreciated. And I was thinking about you when we were talking about grief and like, what is some, some ways that, that, you know, your grieving process, how has it impacted? 

New connections for you that you've made all, all kinds of whether it's, um, friendships, relationships, family, yeah. What, what, what is the impact? look like for you?  

Donna Spatidol: Gosh, that's a tough one, my friend. Um, it's interesting because I don't feel like grief ever ends. And I'm more accepting of that as been in this grieving process for 20 years. 

And people kind of, [00:21:00] um, I think they forget about it. I think they forget about it. And it's not talked about. I think what I've learned through grief is, um, I've connected, I connect more with people who have, are going through grief now that I've gone through grief. So my connections have come through that because before I went through this, um, you don't know. 

It's like you don't know what it's like to be a mother until you're a mother. You just can't tell somebody what it's like to be a mother and you can't tell somebody what it's like to go through, through grief after losing someone. Um, Anyway, I mean, my loss was a sudden loss. It was a car accident, um, for my late husband. 

So it was sudden and You think it's going to get easier, and actually sometimes it gets harder, especially when there's children involved. And they go through milestones that you wish that, you know, their father was here to see them go through. [00:22:00] My daughter recently got engaged, and, you know, that's a tough one. 

Um, it's a tough one because I know she thinks about it. I know she thinks about her dad being there for her to walk her down the aisle. So I'm noticing that I'm grieving now. And I think for a lot of reasons, like with the, with the kids, when things happen and there's monumental things or life changing things. 

And I feel like because of this transition in my life of, of the, of moving, um, I'm grieving not having the partner here that we probably would have dreamed of, like, doing this together. So, as much as this journey that I'm on is, has been a journey on my own for a long time, I'm still grieving, like, Not having a partner here to do it with. 

And, um, so I think about like what it would have been like, you know, even though it's, [00:23:00] it's been 20 years, just grief just comes up. It comes up so unexpectedly. And for me, I feel like it's got layers. Like I find when someone else is going through their grief, it brings up my grief and it just adds another layer. 

Layer to it that, um, you don't, you think that it's going to end and it just doesn't end. It just gets more layers. Added to it. So yeah, 

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Donna Spatidol: I just have more empathy for people, and I will reach out to people who have lost someone. Um, I usually wait. That's what I learned, because when you lo when you lose someone, it doesn't matter if it's sudden or not sudden, if it's a long illness, um, usually you're in shock for, Quite a bit of time. So, uh, I find that if you wait a couple of weeks or [00:25:00] sometimes even a couple of months and you reach out to them, it's, uh, the timing is always, I trust the timing of when I'm supposed to reach out, but I usually wait a little bit. 

Um, and, and reach out to them either by phone or call or a text or a card. Um, and I just have a lot of empathy. I have a lot of empathy. It's been, it's been hard. It hasn't, it hasn't been easy. And, um,  

Genevra Siciliano: In those moments, does, um, if you, if you notice that, um, Grief is like a common denominator in, in meeting new people is that, um, are you more likely to connect with that person or are you more likely to, to pull away because you're being triggered? 

Donna Spatidol: No, I think it's definitely easier to connect with somebody. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't make me pull away. It just, I think that they, I've. You know, [00:26:00] actually connected with a lot of, you know, friends that are either grieving, but also in dating relationships, I find it much easier, um, because they understand. 

And if you talk about them, they're not, they understand, and you can allow them to talk about the person that's not here anymore. So I actually prefer on a dating to be dating someone who is a widow as well, because, um, they they're more understanding. So, I definitely would, would not shy away from that. I think it's, they definitely understand. 

Genevra Siciliano: Are we advertising or?  

Donna Spatidol: I thought we were going to do that at the end. It's long advertisement. 

Genevra Siciliano: I wanted  
 

Donna Spatidol: to, I don't know if that answered your question  

Genevra Siciliano: or not, I mean, that's, that's. That's your answer. And it brought [00:27:00] up a couple of sub questions in my mind, which is great. Okay, so you mentioned about your daughter, and it's a good time to say that your kids live in different cities. And I mean, I'll probably have to go through that. 

One day, but right now I can't imagine it as a mother. So what's that like for you?  

Donna Spatidol: Oh gosh, my, um, my old boss told me, I don't know, 10 or 12 years ago when, when we were looking at colleges, you have to give them, and he's, he was, he's 15 years younger than me. So he, his kids were little and he was like, you have to give them a three hour radius. 

And I did not listen to him. I didn't listen because I wasn't able to go where I wanted to go to college, so I wanted to, if I was able, I wanted to give my kids an opportunity to see another part of the world. I thought if you're going to be somewhere for four years, you might as well be [00:28:00] somewhere you have never seen before or, you know, somewhere that you've, you've wanted to see and you're going to spend four years there. 

So I just thought it was an opportunity if it was possible to be able to let them. You know, go somewhere different. So my daughter chose California and I probably showed her 22 schools on the East coast, which is where we're from. And. Hoping that she would stay on the East coast, but, um, she of course chose California. 

So, um, I knew immediately when we stepped on the campus that she was going to, before she even made her decision, it was down to an East coast school and a West coast school. And I knew once we stepped on that West coast school that she was going to go there and, uh. And then I figured she would come back because she loves the city, she loves New York City. 

I said she'll get it out of her system and she'll come back after four years. And of [00:29:00] course she didn't and she stayed out there and she moved to another city and then she fell in love and then they moved to another city. So they're in San Diego now and Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. That's grief for me, too. 

Every time I either go out there and see them and then I have to leave or they come here and see me and they have to leave. It's, yeah, I grieve. I mean, it's definitely a grief and now my son is, he's out there. He's been out there for a year or two and it's not easy, but I It's the choice I made to allow them to do that. 

And I don't regret it because it's, she loves the West coast. She loves, she loves it and it's yeah, but it's not easy. Okay, thank you for sharing. I don't know if I can recommend give them a three hour radius.  

Genevra Siciliano: Okay, so let's go back to the beginning. Why did you [00:30:00] choose art? Why did you choose  

Donna Spatidol: art? Why did I choose art? 

I don't think you choose, I don't think I chose it. I think art chooses you. I think art chooses you. Mm hmm. Yeah. I'm not smiling because, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. You know what I mean. Um, because I didn't get, I didn't get to choose art. Like that wasn't a choice. I didn't have that choice. I was, I feel like I was stripped of that choice when I listened to, uh, teachers and parents and I don't, I didn't choose it. 

But like I said, I ended up in careers that were super creative. I felt like I was surrounded by. Artists all the time, I ended up in like, you know, just, like I said, graphic artists and art direct positions where we were creative, but it was kind of in a box, like you had to follow, follow the rules in that too. 

So it was safe and [00:31:00] you could make a good living. Yeah. I played it safe until. Art chose me and said, okay, you came kind of screaming at my door. Like it's now or never. And that really came, that really came from cat from the course that we took, you know, it came from that, like, you know, we, like you said, um, the course was about trying to find what, you know, what you're passionate about, what you're kind of made to do. 

So I felt like if I don't give art a chance, I'll never know. So I started.  

Genevra Siciliano: Sorry to cut you off, are you saying that art chose you twice though, because obviously you had those thoughts in the beginning, oh hey, uh, you know, this looks good. And then you said you played it safe and then it came knocking on your door again around You know, through, through the course, so art has chosen you a couple of times  

Donna Spatidol: or more. 
 

I [00:32:00] would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Genevra Siciliano: And did you always receive positive encouragement from the start? No,  

Donna Spatidol: I don't think I've ever, I did not ever receive positive encouragement. Maybe when I was, you know, I have one memory of positive encouragement when I was in third grade. And I did a beautiful poinsettia, and it got stuck up on the wall, and I got the picture with the principal. 

I remember that and I have the picture and it was a black and white picture and I was so proud of, yeah, I should have dug it out for you, but it's in storage  

Genevra Siciliano: somewhere. If you could find it, could you send it to me and then,  

Donna Spatidol: you know, I definitely couldn't send it to you because it's in storage because I'm, you know, you know, I'm kind of living, living out of, um, very limited, but, um, yeah, that's. 

I remember that feeling of being proud of that at such a young age. But then that got, like I said, I had, you know, teachers and [00:33:00] that did not give me positive reinforcement. Um, so I just. You've got a  

Genevra Siciliano: story there, haven't you? So I'm waiting for this story if you want to  

Donna Spatidol: share it. Yeah, it was, um. Like I said, it was, it was when I was learning that I actually had some talent and the talent was, you know, based on copying based on here's a picture, copy it. 

And I was really good at that. Um, in my opinion, I was really good at it, but it was, um, it was high school and. I wanted to go to art school and the, my art teacher at the time, when I look back, cause I know how artists can be, I think that not all artists, um, feel that, that we can encourage and lift each other up and that when one artist wins, we all win. 

I think there's a lot of, um, competition in. And, uh, I, when I look back in hindsight, I mean, this teacher was only a few years older than [00:34:00] me because, you know, when you're a junior, senior in high school and the teacher's only in his twenties, um, yeah, I don't think they want you to succeed. I think that insecure people will not encourage people. 

And I think he did not want me to succeed. And he shared with my mother that I would not be. I wouldn't make it in art school and I wouldn't get into art school. So, um, and that was told to me by my mother, which as a mother, as you know, you probably wouldn't do that to your child. Um, but that was done. 

And so I just, at that point said, okay, two people, you know, he, he chose to tell, tell my mother and my mother chose to tell me, and I guess I'm not good enough because those two people told me I wasn't. So I did not pursue, um, going to Art school. I did major in art. I did, but I wanted to go to art school. 

I wanted to go to, you know, fashion Institute in New York. I wanted to go to Pittsburgh. [00:35:00] I wanted to, uh, there were a couple art schools that I really wanted to go to. So, um, I. To prove them all wrong, I did end up going to Pratt, which is a prestigious art school in New York City, to get my master's. And, um, just to get into Pratt, this was probably 10 years ago, so I was, I wanted to go back and get my, um, art therapy degree, which I ended up not finishing it. 

But I was, just the fact that I got into Pratt was like... Yeah, pretty exciting. So, um, yeah, it was great. It was, um, you know, you do things for different reasons. That was more a fuck you, like I can do it. That was, you know, there's those reasons like you do it for some people become doctors because they lost someone. 

Um, and some people do a fuck you. And that was kind of a fuck you to [00:36:00] the people who told me I wasn't good enough.  

Genevra Siciliano: Is it on the cards to finish that degree or it doesn't, it doesn't matter? You know,  

Donna Spatidol: in hindsight, when I would, when I was going to school, both of my kids were in college at the time. And I just got to this point where like, what the hell do you think you're doing with two in college and you getting your master's? 

And it was a two year program and I finished the first year. So in hindsight, I really. Wish I finished. I do wish I finished, but ha, halfway through I realized I didn't want to be an art therapist. I wanted to be an artist. So again, I felt like I was playing it safe by going to get my degree in art therapy because I thought I would be respected 

So I, I was still down that path of if I get this degree and I have my master's, I'm gonna be respected. And I can get a job in the art field, but I'm still not an artist. I'm an [00:37:00] art therapist. So that was really the, the main reason that I did not finish, but I still kind of wish I had that, I wish I had that degree. 

There's still something about a degree, but I have to, I have to get over that. I don't think I'll go back and finish. Never say never.  

Genevra Siciliano: Have you got the option or is it like once you hit that deferment period you can't?  

Donna Spatidol: I probably couldn't, yeah, I probably would lose, I probably would keep some credits but I wouldn't, it wouldn't be, yeah. 

I might have to start over. I haven't, I haven't got, I haven't looked into it, I'm, I don't think it's, I don't think it's my path. Um, I feel like the way that I do art. is already therapy for me. And if people come into my life and they do art with me, it's therapeutic. And yeah, so I have, I've had, I've had that experience with, um, sharing my art in a therapeutic way that I don't need that [00:38:00] degree to do it in my opinion. 

Genevra Siciliano: Can we pause there for a moment and just go back? I, you know, I love details and I started to really picture this 20 something, uh, teacher that told you no, and like, I'm dying for D. Did he ever say why did he just was just like a flat out, she'll never make it in art school. Or did he actually give. 

Specifics. I don't even, I don't, I don't even think this matters, but  

Donna Spatidol: yeah, yeah. You know, what's funny is I think I was so hurt at the time that he would say that. I really liked, I really liked him and I felt like. Like our, our school was a small school and there were only a handful of artists and there were a handful of us that I felt like we were all good in our own way. 

You know, like we were all, you know, doing the assignments the way we were supposed to do them. So, um, yeah, I don't remember the details. I feel like I would have to ask my mother [00:39:00] again, and she probably wouldn't remember either, but I would just remember I was so hurt. Um. I wish, I mean, there's always the part of me that wants to like, kind of find him, you know, I mean, he's a nice, he was a nice guy, but just kind of find him and say, you know what, it was kind of shitty of you, like those, like, that's when you realize just one thing, I mean, it was just one thing I could have gone the other way, I could have gone the other way. 

And some people do and been like, Screw you. I'm going to prove you wrong, but I wasn't confident. I mean, if it happened today, that's what I would do. But I wasn't confident enough. Um, you know, if my, if my mom had said like, this is what he said, but we believe in you, like we believe that you could do it and if you want to do it. 

Go for it. But I didn't have that either. I had the scarcity. Well, he's right. You're not going to make a living. Maybe you should be a nurse. 

But you know, when you have children, you just would never [00:40:00] ever say that. And that's why I gave my kids such a like huge canvas for their life. To do whatever they want to do, like, I don't care what you say, what anybody says, you could do whatever you want to do. Life is too short to not do what you want to do. 

So that was a long lesson that like took a long, a long time to learn that lesson. But  

Genevra Siciliano: yeah, so just, just quickly, because you've mentioned a couple of times the, you know, when you When you hit an objective, when you want to hit an objective, but what's driving you is, is the, the fuck you, I'm going to show you all, like, you know, now, because I've definitely had that idea in my mind. 

A few times when I've wanted to go after something, but you know, as I read all the texts from Eckhart Tolle and the Peter Crones and [00:41:00] the, you know, the ego making decisions for you that can actually, and, and you hear about. Like you read about people's successes or what was driving them was the fuck you I'll show you like people do have great success But when when that's their drive, are they happy afterwards? 

It's probably another story Now I know that it actually can be one of the worst Reasons behind wanting to Right. Achieve an objective. Um, I just wanted to say that, 'cause that was just, just came through my mind when you were, when you were talking before. We are gonna get to Peter Crone in, in  

Donna Spatidol: like Yeah, I was just gonna say because of Peter Crone, I just know that I, from what I've, what I, I agree with you that I don't, I think if people, if it's the fuck you reason for doing something. 

To prove them, you know, who knows, I mean, it [00:42:00] can end up being a perfect match of what they do with their life. And it also can be, you know, 40 years down the road, I did this for the wrong reasons and there has to be a shift. But because of Peter Crone, I believe that we are exactly where we're supposed to be. 

And that's what was my biggest, my biggest lesson from Peter Crone is everything happens. The way it did, because if it didn't, it wouldn't have, and I probably botched that a little bit, but he's got a bunch of like really good one liners that it happened the way it did because it did. And it didn't happen any other way. 

And so if you just use that as your guideline for everything, relationships and jobs and it's the way it happened and it makes us the way it makes me the way I am and yeah, it's life lessons.  

Genevra Siciliano: The first time I heard him say that, I don't know if you've, have you seen the video where he's [00:43:00] talking to Kerwin Rae and he's got the skin irritation? 

No, no. And it was, turned out it was like the words were from his parents, uh, divorce or something, something to do with his parents marriage. And once he acknowledged it, once Peter Krohn said to him, it happened that way because it happened. Um, his. Skin started to clear up. That's how I, that's how I found Peter Krohn, um, through that Kerwin Ray video. 

But, um, I want to go back to that, but, uh, just with what you were saying before about the art therapy and how, you know, You were having experiences where you share your art with people and it's been therapeutic for you. Uh, you did have a young lady come in and paint with you and just quickly, how did that come about? 

And did you learn? Yeah,  

Donna Spatidol: that was through, again, through the course that you and I did, because there was a time when we were, one of our [00:44:00] assignments was to give away. Are you know, to do things to do something for free. And I think we were supposed to do it for a period of time. Um, I think when you're first starting out, she encouraged us to do it, do it for free. 

So I reached out to a young girl in my town that I knew. She used to work for me at, um, the store that I managed. And I knew that she loved. She loved art. So I reached out to her, her mom at the time she was 15. And I said, you know, I know that she's loves to paint and I would love to have her come and paint with me. 

And, um, so We set up a time and she came, I think it was a Wednesday and she, um, as was actually a recovering, she had cancer when she was four years old. So she had was, you know, she's in remission and she's healthy. Um, but she has some limitations. Uh, so I knew that, um, I knew [00:45:00] that art was something that. 

She enjoyed. And so I invited her over and she came and, um, I think she spent two hours with me the first time and I said to her, you know, if you want to come back next week, you can come back next week. And I drove her home. She was, like I said, at the time she was 15. So she, um, maybe she was 16. 15, 16. But anyway, she, I said to her mom, let me drive her home because this way you don't, you don't know when we're going to end. 

If it's, if we're kind of flowing when you're in the flow, you don't want to stop it. So I would drive her home. And, um, the first time she came when her mom texts me, when she got home and she said to have a 15 year old. Come home happy is like, it doesn't happen, especially for this girl. She said, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't happen. 

She said, you know, I know that, that, that, you know, that it's helping her. And so to me, that was like, wow, like it was [00:46:00] kind of life changing just to know that. You know what it's, what a 15 and 16 year olds are like, especially girls. You have two boys, so maybe you don't know. Yeah,  

Genevra Siciliano: I've got a 15 year old. Yeah. 

Donna Spatidol: Yeah. So she was, you know, and she ended up coming back for almost a year every Wednesday. And I think it was something we were supposed to do for like a couple of weeks, but I just knew how much it was helping her. Um, and I just, I wanted to keep doing it and it was, you know, it, it helped me see that first of all, I'm not, I'm not a teacher and I wasn't teaching her. 

She just liked to paint. I, we would. We would start painting just the way I do for myself. I, you know, I said to her, this is the way I do it. You can do it this way or you don't have to. And, you know, we would journal on our canvases before we started and she enjoyed doing that. And we were sitting separately. 

So I said to her, I'm not going to see what you're right. You're going to paint over it. Don't worry about it. And she would always write something, you know, [00:47:00] before, which just like it filled my heart with so much joy, just to see her doing that and then painting over it. And she. Like, time would fly. We'd play music sometimes, sometimes we wouldn't, sometimes we'd be outside if it was a nice day, sometimes we'd be in my studio, sometimes it was cold, we were in the basement, um, but it was... 

It was, it taught me a lot too. It just, it taught me that how important it is to, to, for the arts for healing. I mean, it was healing her, you know, she's, so that was, that's the, the part that when I look back on the art therapy, that's the part of it that I like because art is, is therapy. You know, we see it in the music and painting and all the arts are therapy in my opinion. 

Genevra Siciliano: Let's talk about your home. All right. Yeah, because, [00:48:00] um, okay, it's, it's no longer, and I can, I can hardly believe it because you just to give a bit of background quickly, and it's not my background to tell, obviously, but, um, you know, for me, from my point of view, because,  

Donna Spatidol: yeah, you went through that with me. 

Genevra Siciliano: And you were feeling so conflicted about whether to stay or whether to move on and you had quite an interesting relationship with your home and there's been a disaster or two there. Um. Do you want to just quickly? Yeah,  

Donna Spatidol: I'll give, I'll give a Reader's Digest version just because it, it brings up too much anxiety for me. 

So I don't want to, I don't want to dwell on it, but it, it was around the time of the course that we took together because I had, I had felt this, you know, I had been in my home, I think for about six years at the time. And I felt like it was time to move on. Like I moved to a new [00:49:00] place. I moved to Cape Cod. 

Um, After my, when my kids both were in college, I felt like I needed a change. We were in the house that, um, my husband and I raised them in. And I just felt like I was in that house for 20 years and I needed a change. And so I chose when they went to college to make this change. And I was there for about six years. 

And then I felt. this energy that it was time to change again. And around that time was the time we were taking the course. And it was actually the graduation night. We had, I don't know if you remember the, the graduation that we had for the course. I wasn't present for it, but yeah. Well, I was supposed to be present. 

We were supposed to wear a crown. We were supposed to, you know, and I had this crown on my head and it was pretty. And my house flooded that night. I had everything set up to be there, be part of the graduation. And I had a flood in my house as the graduation was happening. And, um, long story short, there was some construction across the street or [00:50:00] empty lot, and the water came to my house and flooded my house that night. 

And, um, it was devastating. It was so devastating because it kept happening. It just didn't happen once because of this. New development house across the street from me, it changed the grade and my house would just flood every time it rained. So I had, like I said, I had this, this urge to move and then all of a sudden I couldn't, because I had this to take care of, I didn't know what to do. 

I had, so it was almost a year of, of, um, kind of. Negotiating and arguing with builders and the town and until they fixed it and I could put my house on the market. So that's what I did about six months ago. I put my house on the market, maybe, I don't know, last October, I put my house on the market after everything was. 

Resolved and, um, and was ready to, for a new adventure. And so [00:51:00] that's what I'm on right now. Yeah. It took a little longer for my house to sell because I had to disclose that what happened. And so it took a little longer, even in this crazy market, but it sold. And, um, I didn't know where I wanted to go next. 

I thought by the time my house sold, I might know, but I just knew that I was. Like felt that I, I needed a change. Um, and then I still didn't know where I was going. So when I moved to Cape Cod, I knew I was moving to the Cape, but I hadn't bought a house or anything. So I stayed there for about seven months just to make sure I liked it before I bought this house. 

But this move is different because I just knew it was time to move, but I didn't know where. So I'm kind of traveling. And figuring it out along the way and trusting all the little breadcrumbs as I go. Yeah. It  

Genevra Siciliano: just blows my mind because a lot of our conversations, um, [00:52:00] the undertones there where it was like you were being held captive by your home, not in a, just. 

You know what I mean, like just from the circumstances and you really weren't sure what to do. And I, and now you're like roaming the country, like it's, I can't believe it. I still can't believe it. And it's so wild. And you've got, you've got two dogs with you, you're doing it with two dogs and how are they coping? 

Donna Spatidol: Okay. Well, they were doing okay until where I lived. a cool climate and there was always a little ocean breeze. So we are in, um, you know, I went from Cape Cod to Maine, which is pretty cool. Which was fine, and then Vermont, which was fine, and then we kept going south to New Jersey, which was not so fine. 

I'm originally from New Jersey, so I have a lot of family still there. [00:53:00] Um, so that was, yeah, it's just about 10 to 12 degrees hotter where I've been traveling to. So the pups and I are not loving the heat. So I know that wherever I land has to be a little cooler. My body has adjusted to the, like the coastal temperatures. 

So yeah, they're doing okay. Not as yeah, they're older, you know, they're 12 when I moved to the Cape, they were only, they were like four when I moved to the Cape eight years ago. So there, you know, the adjustment there was easy. Now it's, it's not as easy for them. So I'm considering them more than I. Wish I had to as much as I love them So I'm not as free bird as I would be if it were just me I have to make sure the places I stay are pet friendly and the people I visit, you know are okay with pets So that's it's been a little bit more of a glitch than I had hoped but I'm just gonna continue to trust that [00:54:00] Yeah, I'm gonna trust that I'm being guided in  

Genevra Siciliano: in the way that you're connected to Your art and, you know, the way that you immerse yourself in the creativity, how important is the workspace? 

So, how important has your home space, um, been to you? Because, like, do you just need some basic tools, some good vibes, quiet space, and you're good to go? Or do you feel like a little bit detached because you're not in your, your beautiful studio, by the way? Cause you know that.  

Donna Spatidol: Yeah. Thanks. I love, yeah. Yeah. 

I definitely have a list of requirements that I'm going to want in my next space. And my last space was like magical. Like I did not ask for, I didn't ask for anything in the last space. I really just asked for a fireplace. That was like my big, that's something that I really, really want [00:55:00] is. A fireplace, but on this, um, yeah, there's a long, longer list that I hope to have. 

And, um, yeah, the space definitely like the first couple of weeks without my studio, I just made a decision that I wasn't really going to do any art. Like I brought some really small drawing things with me and. Um, and I've used that, but after a couple of weeks, I was like, I need to paint. So the space I'm in now, I, I'm here for two weeks. 

So it's been a really nice space. It's got incredible vibes. I'm on a, like a S a stream. Like you can probably almost hear it. That's how loud it is. Like if you hear anything in the background, it's the stream because there's nothing else here. I'm in the woods. With a stream. So it's  

Genevra Siciliano: a cold  
 

Donna Spatidol: plunging. It's [00:56:00] magical for my cold plunging and it's magical for creating. 

So yeah, I had to make the decision in some of the places I visited, the energy, either the people I was with, or the space I was in, I had to let go that I could not be creative. My space is super important to me. And I'm a homebody to a super homebody. So like I said to my kids, like I might have to. Put fast forward on finding it and traveling. 

Not sure. I'm not sure, but I, my space is super important to me. Yeah.  

Genevra Siciliano: Sometimes when you publish your, your painting on Instagram, it's not necessarily the final work and sometimes you paint over it. Does that happen a lot? And how do you know when something is completed?  

Donna Spatidol: Uh, it happens more often now. I would, would have never even thought about doing that. 

And maybe I saw another artist do it. And [00:57:00] like, I was like, I never even like, I would just Because of my perfectionism, I wouldn't even think of, like, disrupting a painting once it's done. It's like, that's it, it's done. But now, I, I feel like sometimes they're done, and then sometimes, because I, I treat them more like people, and they're, they have more a mind of their own, and sometimes they'll speak to you and tell you that they're done, and sometimes they're not done. 

Um. Sometimes you get tired of them. It's like furniture, like rearranging furniture. I get bored pretty easily. So if I have been looking at a painting for a long time, if it hasn't sold, like there's a lot of things. If I did it in a time when I wasn't in a great space, So there's lots of different reasons. 

I'll look at it and go, you know what? I remember exactly how I felt when I painted that. And I want that memory to go away. So that could be a reason. So there's lots of reasons. Um, financial [00:58:00] reasons, canvases are super expensive. So right now I'm like trying to not. Um, and they also take up room. I like to paint big. 

I used to paint really small and detailed and now I paint big, use more of my body, but it's expensive. So, and it takes, they take up room. So I'm probably not going to like spend the money or have that, those big canvases that I'm traveling around with. So I have to limit, limit it, but yeah, so I have painted over, I don't, haven't regretted Any of them except one recently, I was like, where's those, where are those blue flowers that I did? 

And I kind of scrolled through. Oh, my  

Genevra Siciliano: God, you forgot, you forgot you painted over them.  

Donna Spatidol: And I was looking for them. And I'm like, ah shit, I remember I was like, yeah, you never really liked this painting anyway. And then all of a sudden I liked it because actually someone made a comment on it. So from the beginning I had this bad feeling about it. 

There was like a [00:59:00] negative comment about it. Not negative, but a comment that made, swayed  

Genevra Siciliano: the way you finished,  

Donna Spatidol: swayed the way, made it feel like it wasn't finished. It was a, it was a, from another artist who wasn't. Anyway, it, it rubbed me the wrong way. So I always thought of that when I looked at it. So I did paint over it. 

And then when I went looking for it, I was like, why did you paint over that? So yeah, that was, yeah, that was before I was treating my art nicer. Do  

Genevra Siciliano: you take a photo before you paint over or you're just like,  

Donna Spatidol: uh, yeah, like I definitely have photos of everything. So yeah, I could probably go back and make prints, but they're not professional photos like they would be if you took them. 

Genevra Siciliano: Yes, yes, I will come and visit you, Donna, if you pay for my, my flight. Um, uh, where can people see your artwork, on [01:00:00]  

Donna Spatidol: Instagram at the moment. I am a procrastinator in getting my website done and I'm going to yell, I'm going to blame my daughter because she Can make websites. That's  

Genevra Siciliano: what you can do. Look how you automatically went there. 

It wasn't an opportunity to, to remind you that you need a website, which you do, by the way, but no, it was, what's your, tell everyone your, your username.  

Donna Spatidol: So my last name is Spatidol. S P A T I D O L.  

Genevra Siciliano: Yeah. Lovely. I will put that in the show notes as well. Thank you, my dear. Um, and people, if they want to connect or  

Donna Spatidol: reach out to connect and make me a website, that'd be great. 

Yeah.  

Genevra Siciliano: So, Instagram is the best way to, to get to Donna. Yeah, for sure. Do you feel that where you are now, half the time you feel invigorated because it's, it's Meaning a whole bunch of new experiences for you and half the [01:01:00] time, do you feel drained or unsettled because what you've been used to is no longer there? 

Donna Spatidol: 100%. 100%. Yeah. Good days and bad days for sure. Yeah. Days that are, that it's really exciting and days that I I'll call my daughter and say I need home. Where's home? And so I'm learning, I am learning that home is like right here. Like home is where I am. Home is in my heart. Home is who I'm with. And a lot of times, most of the time it's with myself. 

So I am learning. The lesson for sure on this journey is that home is, home is within me. So that's something I'm learning, that home's within me.[01:02:00]  

Genevra Siciliano: I guess that was  

Donna Spatidol: something I needed to say. Yeah. Cause I, yeah, like I, that's something that I've, that when I'm sad, when I'm sad and alone and we're never alone, but it's. I'm alone. I enjoy being alone and people will say, this is what you've chosen. I have chosen this a lot. I could be in a relationship. I don't choose to be in a relationship with just anyone. 

So I, but I have chosen this quiet contemplative. Life and it is mostly being alone and um, but so I have, I've had to learn that I'm at home and in myself and that is home. Home is in myself. [01:03:00] Love you. Thanks Diana. That's  

Genevra Siciliano: beautiful.  
 

Donna Spatidol: So you're going to have to do some serious editing, magic editing. No?  

Genevra Siciliano: Do you not, do you not have faith in me, Donna? 

I do have faith in you. I tell you everything like you, you've been there for me since we met through the course and one of my favorite things about our connection is the little, you know, the little Instagram voicemails. We leave each other if I, if I wake up to one, because when I'm going to bed, you're waking up. 

Is that this, roughly? Yeah.  

Donna Spatidol: Yeah, yeah. I know. I had to get used to that. I was like, okay, 12 hours, add a few. I still don't really know. I just don't, I'm always like, she's a few, she's more than 12 hours ahead, or, you know. Yeah. Yeah, because today it's, you're always a day ahead. Which is crazy, but I told  

Genevra Siciliano: you everything about my life, all my dating stories [01:04:00]  

Donna Spatidol: through you. 

Genevra Siciliano: Had a couple of yourself though, but we won't go into that. And then you're like, don't worry, you'll find your Peter Crone one day. And I'm like, But do I even want a Peter Krohn? Ah, Donna wants a Peter Krohn.  

Donna Spatidol: I definitely want a Peter Crone. So if there's any Peter Crones out there,  

Genevra Siciliano: we can link, can  

Donna Spatidol: we link Peter Crone here? 

Yeah,  

Genevra Siciliano: I will. But If there's any Peter Crones out there that can also make you a website, you know, let's, you know, two birds with one stone, um, then yes, definitely connect with Donna on Instagram. Thank you so much. Donna. I love you. All the best. I love you too. All the best with your new roaming adventures and I hope you find your, your, you know, your, your semi permanent space. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  

Donna Spatidol: It might be a semi, a semi permanent space for a little while, but yeah, thanks. Thank you. Thank [01:05:00] you for having me. Good luck.  

Genevra Siciliano: Thank you. Good luck with it all.  

Donna Spatidol: Thank you. I love you. Love you. Catch you later. Okay. Bye sweetie. Bye.