Coffee, Panini and Entrepreneurship With Cafe` Owner Nathaniel Praino - #06

"Coffee is number one, and being completely engrossed with coffee and sucked into the whole world of the good espresso... that's been my key focus for majority of the business. And then accompanied by a really good panino, which in my life and my growing up has been very important, whether it's just a staple lunch on a Saturday afternoon with mortadella and provolone or something a little bit more with your giardiniere and your prosciutti..."

I interviewed Nathaniel Praino, who runs a successful café in Adelaide's east. He welcomed me into his space where we spoke about coffee, panini, family support, setting up a second location, setbacks during his start-up phase, and more... 

05:43 - What drove Nathaniel to open up the cafè
10:17 - Why Nathaniel did not expect the cafè community to develop in the way that it did 
11:58 - “It’s not your job to create”
15:18 - On family support + 30,000 panini!
17:42 - On work life and balancing parenting
19:14 - Opening despite a pandemic
20:27 - Winning an award for best coffee 
22:38 - Opening up a second location 
28:30 - Working around not having a full kitchen 
30:48 - Attracting friendly staff and people
33:46 - Advice for someone wanting to start up their own cafe
38:52 - Nathaniel’s signature Portuguese tarts 

Learn more about the café and join the local community on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/nathanielscoffeeandpanini/

Follow Nathaniel's café updates on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nathanielscoffeepanini/

Watch this episode on YouTube:  https://youtu.be/VQwcLuOW9FI

Transcript

00:00:00:55 - 00:00:08:15
Genevra
Hello, Nathaniel. You're my guest today on my podcast. Thank you for being here.

00:00:09:06 - 00:00:11:21
Nathaniel
You're welcome. Thank you for asking me to be here.

00:00:12:02 - 00:00:19:32
Genevra
Nathaniel Praino, of Nathaniel’s the cafe, in east of Adelaide, on Payneham Road-

00:00:19:32 - 00:00:21:02
Nathaniel
Nathaniel’s Coffee and Panini...

00:00:21:07 - 00:00:27:41
Genevra
Sorry, everyone! Nathaniel’s (laugh) Coffee and panini. We're on the eve of your third birthday...

00:00:27:46 - 00:00:31:58
Nathaniel
That's right. Tomorrow's the 4th. Started on the Saturday, 4th, 2020.

00:00:32:18 - 00:00:41:41
Genevra
And this is the first cafe that you that you've opened... and your background is in hospitality?

00:00:41:46 - 00:00:55:17
Nathaniel
Yeah. Pretty much. It shouldn't have been, but it became that way. Dad wanted me to have a trade and do carpentry. And I worked in a cafe and loved it, so I stuck with it for 18 years.

00:00:56:02 - 00:00:57:42
Genevra
And how is your dad with that?

00:00:58:04 - 00:00:59:31
Nathaniel
Oh he's happy now! (Laugh)

00:00:59:36 - 00:01:03:13
Genevra
Yeah. He has to be happy now (laugh) - you’ve got pretty good success here.

00:01:03:15 - 00:01:11:19
Nathaniel
Yeah. It took him a few years to understand that I could make a good living out of hospitality. And now I've got my own place, he’s proud as punch.

00:01:11:24 - 00:01:14:39
Genevra
So he was worried in the beginning about whether you could financially-

00:01:14:43 - 00:01:16:30
Nathaniel
He thought it was an in-between job.

00:01:16:35 - 00:01:22:32
Genevra
Yeah. Okay. By the way, thank you for supplying coffee today. Appreciate it!

00:01:22:36 - 00:01:24:05
Nathaniel
I brought Portuguese tarts too - no worries.

00:01:24:10 - 00:01:51:24
Genevra
I wanted to ask you because your sister was on MasterChef in 2017. And you--because we had a quick chat before we went live today--you said that you were pretty much seeing your sister through that journey. And what I wanted to ask you is, were you inspired by that? Did you already have your ideas around food before she was going through that process?

00:01:52:50 - 00:02:21:32
Nathaniel
Definitely had my ideas around what I wanted to do for my ideal cafe. She had some pretty cool ideas, which I thought would be useful or would be that would work out in a cafe long term. Even she had some ideas that she wanted to do and incorporate with me as well. That transformed into something else, which is great because she supplies me with most of my cakes now.

00:02:21:36 - 00:02:27:38
Nathaniel
There's always the potential for the future for something different if, you know, if she wants it.

00:02:27:54 - 00:02:40:10
Genevra
I just kind of wondered, you know, while you're watching her going through that competition, did that sort of make you sort of more driven to do your own thing?

00:02:40:15 - 00:03:10:38
Nathaniel
Not at the time. I was probably still pretty anxious to do anything else. It was a crossroads for me, really, personal life as well as with my career. Aside from that, it was really awesome to see where she was going and how she could change her career or put her career on hold while doing something completely different and that not many people could get a chance to do.

00:03:11:10 - 00:03:42:40
Nathaniel
That was really awesome to see that. And to see where she got to - top 8 - and got to go to Japan and finish off proud as anything. Yeah, I was just inspired by that and her journey through all of Masterchef and her love to come back home and continue cooking. That was sort of like, okay, if she can do that...

00:03:42:40 - 00:03:52:49
Nathaniel
Then I can be comfortable and do it at home and plan for it and take my time. And I did start planning around then, but it took a few years before I got the final thing through.

00:03:53:50 - 00:03:58:44
Genevra
What drove you to want to open your own cafe?

00:03:58:49 - 00:04:19:29
Nathaniel
A bunch of different things, but the real push was my wife, Lidia. She said, If you don't do it, things probably won't work out. (Laugh) She pretty much said that I got to do it because she knew that I could I could do it well. She could see I make a good coffee and that I'm really good in the cafe.

00:04:19:42 - 00:04:34:32
Nathaniel
I've got the skill. I had the skill to do it. I just didn't. I was a bit lazy and I needed the push to get it going and every week I had a new goal ticked off. And yes, she was the push for me.

00:04:34:41 - 00:04:43:57
Genevra
That's really cool because when we chatted, you pretty much said that if it wasn't for your wife, then you wouldn't have opened the cafe, which I thought was huge.

00:04:44:04 - 00:04:45:29
Nathaniel
Yeah...

00:04:45:34 - 00:04:47:09
Genevra
Relationship goals, everyone.

00:04:47:09 - 00:04:47:41
Nathaniel
Yeah, that's... Bloody oath.

00:04:47:41 - 00:04:48:39
Genevra
Right. (Laugh)

00:04:51:30 - 00:05:07:24
Nathaniel
I know I wanted to do it, but I probably would have taken my time and it would have been ten years later... and it would have been completely different. And although this is not ideally what I had chosen to do or wanted to do eight years ago, it's turned out to be really good.

00:05:07:37 - 00:05:12:17
Genevra
Okay, so pause there. What were you wanting to do eight years ago?

00:05:13:10 - 00:05:51:04
Nathaniel
Probably more cooked meals, a cafe with a kitchen, and a bit more... just a bit more table service. But probably wasn't going to be worth it in the beginning for me here. I really wanted more of a lot of things, but set up quite small and started with minimal costs and expenses. And as for what I could afford to do, and I thought, if it works, I'll keep going and then build it up from there.

00:05:51:25 - 00:06:08:38
Genevra
That leads me to my question of when you think of the original concept for this cafe, like the seed, was it about a good cup of coffee, was it about the panini, was it about a feeling that you wanted people to have when they come in...?

00:06:08:43 - 00:06:43:52
Nathaniel
Coffee is number one, and being completely engrossed with coffee and sucked into the whole world of the good espresso... that's been my key focus for majority of of the business. And then accompanied by a really good panino, which in my life and my growing up is very important, whether it's just a staple lunch on a Saturday afternoon with mortadella and provolone or something a little bit more with your giardiniere and your prosciutti...

00:06:43:57 - 00:06:54:40
Nathaniel
I just wanted everyone to really experience something that I've experienced over my lifetime, even though some people would have had it. There's a lot of Italians that come here-

00:06:54:44 - 00:06:56:00
Genevra
That’s so unexpected. (Laugh)

00:06:56:04 - 00:06:56:22
Nathaniel
Just.

00:06:57:53 - 00:07:05:36
Genevra
Is there any connection to your childhood with eating a really good panino?

00:07:05:41 - 00:07:32:48
Nathaniel
My dad always said company comes from the word com panis, which is Latin for with bread and so when the Italian family has people over they always share food and whether it's coffee and food, even if it's as simple as a biscuit, we’d always share food with friends, with family and extended friends.

00:07:32:48 - 00:07:45:53
Nathaniel
It doesn't matter if you are related or not. You're share your food with your friends. And that's essentially what my business is all about, sharing my coffee and my food with my friends and my extended family.

00:07:48:19 - 00:07:51:42
Genevra
You get a real sense of that when you come into your shop...

00:07:51:42 - 00:08:00:22
Nathaniel
That's what I want, I want that community. I want that want that you know, sense of familiarity when you come in, even if you've never been in before.

00:08:00:45 - 00:08:27:36
Genevra
Yeah. And I don't Well, I don't know if I've ever really experienced that. I mean, you see, you know, you make friends with the barista at another cafe or whatever you say hello. But this was something different that I noticed in your shop, and that was when I, I thought, I really want to chat to you about, you know, I wanted to get you on my show because that the community part is what I wanted to talk to you about.

00:08:27:36 - 00:08:35:49
Genevra
But you did say to me that the way that it unfolded, it was unexpected. And why do you think it was unexpected?

00:08:36:27 - 00:09:02:51
Nathaniel
I can't put it onto one thing. I just naturally want to help and please everyone, but I want to have a good conversation with everybody. One thing I love about my job is also I could always have a chat with someone even while working. So for me it was... when people were stopping by through all of 2020 and 21...

00:09:02:51 - 00:09:28:24
Nathaniel
People were working from home, so they were getting out for a bit of fresh air, taking their families out, taking their dogs out, and they'll come past for a coffee. And I would introduce myself, but also have a chat with them. And I wasn't about just wanting them to buy a panino or a coffee because, yeah, I'm in the business to make money, but I'm also here to have a good time and have a chat. Because my work is all about enjoying, enjoying it and I love my job.

00:09:29:09 - 00:09:30:39
Genevra
That's, that's so awesome.

00:09:30:39 - 00:09:32:50
Nathaniel
And everywhere I've been, I've always loved my job.

00:09:33:48 - 00:09:39:28
Genevra
It's really good because there is-if you don't like people, you probably shouldn't be in hospitality. Am I right?

00:09:39:32 - 00:09:41:39
Nathaniel
No way. No way. (Laugh)

00:09:41:44 - 00:09:53:29
Genevra
And also, like, you have to be good at multitasking, because when I'm focused on a task, last thing I want, or like, is people chatting to me--I just can't--I have to commit to that person.

00:09:54:03 - 00:09:58:06
Nathaniel
So it's hard sometimes when you want to cut them off because you're going to serve the next customer.

00:09:58:06 - 00:10:00:57
Genevra
But it's a good problem to have.

00:10:01:25 - 00:10:02:36
Nathaniel
(Laugh) Yeah, that's for sure.

00:10:02:59 - 00:10:24:55
Genevra
So going going back to what drove you to open the cafe, you did say to me that you had better ways of doing things when you when you were working for other people. You obviously had conversations in your mind of how you would do it better. You want to expand on that?

00:10:26:18 - 00:10:52:17
Nathaniel
Everywhere I had previously worked, bar one place, any time there was an idea brought to the managers or the bosses, they had to get approval from someone else and things were too complicated and too hard to change. And so if I had a way of doing something, they said no-just stick to how it is, even if your idea is better, just stick to what we were doing because it's too hard to change.

00:10:53:23 - 00:11:02:57
Nathaniel
And that bothered me because I could make life so much easier by changing the way. But no, we had to stick to that way.

00:11:03:02 - 00:11:05:06
Genevra
That would be so frustrating.

00:11:05:06 - 00:11:37:46
Nathaniel
Yeah. And even even if it's the smallest thing, it's just those little things that bothered me and also drove me to having my own place. There were a couple of food ideas and drink ideas that I had thought of over the years and had tried them out and a couple of people loved them and a couple of managers had said, we can't do it because it's not something that you come up with.

00:11:37:46 - 00:11:41:18
Nathaniel
It's not your job to create. It's just your job to make.

00:11:41:18 - 00:11:44:34
Genevra
And I think I just died a little bit in my heart.

00:11:44:39 - 00:11:45:15
Nathaniel
Yeah, well.

00:11:46:07 - 00:11:47:39
Genevra
Not your job to create.

00:11:47:43 - 00:12:08:50
Nathaniel
Yeah. What’s the point? So I had to bite my tongue a few times... and then a few times it was, you know, open to come up with all these great ideas, but then, it‘s for someone else. And I thought, Well, I don't want to do that forever, because otherwise I’m going to have nothing for myself. So sometimes I just kept things to myself.

00:12:09:17 - 00:12:33:26
Genevra
With with all the reading I've been doing about, you know, running a business and trying to be a good leader as a business owner, I think one of the quickest ways to get rid of your staff is to not allow them to flourish in their role and just, you know, be open to--if they do have a better way of doing something then just let them do it.

00:12:33:53 - 00:13:00:33
Nathaniel
Yeah, Yeah, for sure. And we've got this cool- not incentive-it's more of a competition. Every week, one staff brings out their own food item and, you know, they've got ample time to think of what they want to do each week. But we did this competition last year with all the staff and whoever sold the most panini or just had the best idea that customers really loved, then that ended up being on the menu.

00:13:00:42 - 00:13:17:06
Nathaniel
And last year, Stefan came up with a panino that sounded delicious and tasted delicious, and it's been on the menu for a year - over a year, and we've kept it, and now we've got the competition going on again and all these ideas are really coming in and are really awesome.

00:13:18:00 - 00:13:46:59
Genevra
I love that because it's a form of creativity and that's like, you know, a running theme for my show so I love hearing stuff like that. Yeah, that's cool. So there's definitely a sense of family through this business and it carries through in the way that you run this business you were telling me about your mum and how from day one... ?

00:13:47:04 - 00:14:07:55
Nathaniel
She's made over 30,000 panini? (Laugh) Yeah. So my mum's been working here every day that we've been open-bar three weeks that she went over to Europe last month. She's been working every day since I've opened, and this is her job out of love. And then she goes to her job in the city after that.

00:14:08:04 - 00:14:08:56
Genevra
That’s amazing.

00:14:09:09 - 00:14:45:03
Nathaniel
She's been just ten years working in judicial registrar, the family courts. And so she does that and she probably does 60 hours a week, including reading at home and going into the courts. So she's a hard worker. All my family are hard workers. But mum wakes up - she hates mornings, she wakes up at 6:00, comes here at 6:30, makes the panini and then goes to work at 8:00, gets there and does her day, finishes maybe five, reads for an hour or so, and then goes home.

00:14:46:27 - 00:15:00:00
Nathaniel
Yeah. We've come from a long line of hard workers and she's not afraid of it. And, you know, days where she doesn't want to do it, but she still comes in because she's committed.

00:15:00:45 - 00:15:10:29
Genevra
She's got that discipline. Yeah. I think the, the older generation is a little bit different to the newer generation. Would you agree?

00:15:10:33 - 00:15:28:17
Nathaniel
For sure. But you know, not to say that we're not hard workers. I mean, my wife, Lydia, she did the first year and a half, same as mum- they made the panini together. Then she would go off to work too. So it's not just Mum-I can't take all the credit.

00:15:28:17 - 00:15:30:45
Genevra
So you’ve had a lot of good support?

00:15:30:45 - 00:15:45:13
Nathaniel
Yeah, huge. Lydia still works every Saturdays with me, she did-every Saturday from the beginning. She stopped a little bit while baby was born, but she's still there now.

00:15:47:12 - 00:15:56:54
Genevra
You're pretty much freshly married? Congratulations. And you're pretty much- would you say you're a new dad?

00:15:57:28 - 00:15:58:32
Nathaniel
Yeah. Newish.

00:15:58:37 - 00:16:06:55
Genevra
And so, you know, when you knew that a child was coming, were you planning to step back a little bit?

00:16:07:00 - 00:16:11:30
Nathaniel
For a week. (Laugh) That's all I could really get away for.

00:16:12:29 - 00:16:16:57
Genevra
Do you have any tips for, like, new dads out there that are trying to grow a business?

00:16:17:45 - 00:16:44:22
Nathaniel
Don't start a second one (laugh) with a one year old or even a six month old. I'm lucky that Lidia can bring Graziella, our baby, into the shop every day. And on the days that she can't come in, I know that I'll be home before they get home. I'm able to go see them quite frequently. And really, the first six months, I got to spend a day with her by myself.

00:16:44:22 - 00:17:07:48
Nathaniel
So wednesdays was my day to look after Graziella. Having your own business... you've got a bit more flexibility to spend time with your child. However, you may have those days or weeks when work is just so full on, you've got no time at all. So it's a bit of a just going to work on that balance. I mean, if you’ve got a day off then that's fantastic.

00:17:07:48 - 00:17:14:27
Nathaniel
If you don't get days off, just spend that extra little time as much as possible. Where possible.

00:17:14:50 - 00:17:20:02
Genevra
Are you happy with the timing of everything? Would you change anything?

00:17:20:14 - 00:17:20:34
Nathaniel
No.

00:17:21:06 - 00:17:25:45
Genevra
That's I mean, that's I think that's the best takeaway.

00:17:25:45 - 00:18:09:22
Nathaniel
Had I known that a big pandemic was coming six months before I was opening, I probably maybe would’ve hesitated a little bit. We set up the shop--I got the keys in the first week of January 2020, and we started ripping the floors out and the old furniture and started laying everything down and making it as it is now. It took us two and a half months to get it up... and I had friends who are doctors in emergency all over Adelaide saying don't open and friends who were working in the city, who were getting sent home saying don't open.

00:18:09:53 - 00:18:30:10
Nathaniel
And we decided to open anyway because the money was in the shop, you know. Yeah, if we didn't open we would be wasting it and I signed the lease just at the beginning of the year. And honestly, I didn't know what I was getting into.

00:18:30:10 - 00:18:45:23
Genevra
Got a real theme of forging ahead in this talk so far, which is just awesome. And apparently, ten months after opening, your cafe won an award for Best Coffee?

00:18:45:27 - 00:19:13:09
Nathaniel
Yeah, there's a cool little local or statewide competition. It was more of a, you know, any readers could vote for us and they voted us as best in the east and I know that not everyone is in this thing because lots of cafes that I go to weren't in it but it was matter of people voted for me and they voted for me as best in the east and that was bloody awesome.

00:19:13:39 - 00:19:25:28
Nathaniel
I took it on. I was really happy-I was impressed with it. I didn't think that was going to be something that'll be happening in the first, you know, first year. And then it went to the state -- I think, top 8 for the state.

00:19:30:06 - 00:19:35:30
Genevra
So great. And then did you feel like, yep I'm on the right path here?

00:19:35:35 - 00:19:41:25
Nathaniel
I always thought I was on the right path, just getting a bit noticed sooner than sooner than later.

00:19:42:18 - 00:20:00:38
Genevra
Both of us share--we both have an Italian background. Just very quickly, I've started learning proper Italian through uni and I'm finding that it’s bringing me closer to the culture. I wanted to know, since running the business, have you felt closer to the culture?

00:20:00:43 - 00:20:29:05
Nathaniel
No different. The only thing I’ve felt closer to is my Napoli football team (laugh) because I'm getting up early enough to watch the games. So no, there is no difference to the culture. Unfortunately, I probably see less of the Italian culture being closer to the city... where I was before, I was you know, in the hood of Little Italy, in Campbelltown.

00:20:30:18 - 00:20:36:47
Nathaniel
So now I'm further away, I get less Italians that are coming through, but yeah, I still get quite a few around.

00:20:36:47 - 00:20:38:24
Genevra
Can you speak fluently?

00:20:39:00 - 00:20:42:39
Nathaniel
Nope. I can have basic conversation and I'm not going to do it now. (Laugh)

00:20:42:41 - 00:20:59:12
Genevra
Yeah, and that's why I started at uni, because I wanted to get a bit more confident. The cafe's clearly taken on a life of its own and you opened up a second location?

00:20:59:17 - 00:21:22:49
Nathaniel
Nathaniel's Porta Via, which is in Dulwich on Greenhill Road. Some friends approached me, they were originally the business across the road from us here, in that red building over there, from Pop Up Healthcare and they said, Hey, we're relocating at the end of the year and we don't want to lose your coffee - do want to come with us? And I thought, wow, that's, that's just...

00:21:22:55 - 00:21:23:17
Genevra
That’s really cool!

00:21:24:00 - 00:21:53:26
Nathaniel
Yeah, I thought that was just the nicest little thing to hear. I couldn't, I couldn't say no. Well, I could have, but it would have been very silly because they were offering so much and I really wanted to give it a try. It's been open for, I think, five months now. We thought we'd give it our best shot. We, we set up behind the reception in their foyer and it's open Monday to Friday, 6 to 12.

00:21:54:16 - 00:22:04:06
Nathaniel
The location is good. I need to bring a few more people in though. It's not working quite as I had hoped or expected.

00:22:04:11 - 00:22:05:32
Genevra
That was my next question.

00:22:06:22 - 00:22:29:36
Nathaniel
But I mean, being only five months in and you know, it's a hidden little place unless unless, you know, it's there, it's going to be really hard to find. There's still a few more things I want to do to really push that that shop. But not all is lost. I mean, we're having better weeks as we go.

00:22:30:08 - 00:22:34:59
Genevra
Is there more pressure and responsibility by having that second location?

00:22:35:08 - 00:22:36:26
Nathaniel
Yeah, it’s huge.

00:22:36:49 - 00:22:46:14
Genevra
And has it been a good trade off? Has it been-- aside from having not as many people as you'd expected--it is still worth it for you?

00:22:46:19 - 00:23:13:05
Nathaniel
At the moment, it's still watch and see. It's a lot of work because I'm not only thinking about, what I need to supply, but also when I need to drop it off and how the food gets there because I'm supplying most of the food from the shop here in St Peters. So I'm getting deliveries to the shop most mornings and if we don't get it dropped off early enough, then we don't sell any food to the other shop.

00:23:13:05 - 00:23:25:00
Nathaniel
And that's really pretty negative. Pretty bad, pretty poor form on my behalf. There are days that people really want a lot of food there and other days where they don't want anything at all...

00:23:25:13 - 00:23:26:10
Genevra
Hard to plan.

00:23:26:10 - 00:23:39:26
Nathaniel
Yeah, so a bit of messing around, but something I still need to work on a little bit more, maybe to get my name out there a bit more, maybe even to residents.

00:23:39:30 - 00:23:45:24
Genevra
Are you good at delegating and or do you pretty much want to hold on to everything?

00:23:46:18 - 00:23:50:03
Nathaniel
Well, I can delegate, but I tend to do it all myself.

00:23:52:52 - 00:23:59:01
Genevra
I think when your business is named after you, that also doesn't help matters...

00:24:00:00 - 00:24:21:00
Nathaniel
Here is okay. I'm more concerned about letting this one go. And I spent two weeks setting up the other shop and I felt like this one was struggling a bit and I had staff that were here for two years plus and it was still I had quite a few issues and it felt like teething issues, even though I was two years in.

00:24:21:00 - 00:24:38:06
Nathaniel
And so I've been a bit hesitant to get away from here for too long. Although the other one closes at midday, it's still still just, you know, holding on a little bit too much to here.

00:24:38:11 - 00:25:03:27
Genevra
Can we just also quickly talk about you know, the team situation we touched on a little bit before about having a competition with the the panini, but like, do your ideas kind of intensify or do you have more of them when you're like, where do you ideas come from? Do they come from people?

00:25:03:32 - 00:25:30:17
Nathaniel
When when I'm talking with the staff or when they're starting the shift, or if it's the beginning of the day or the middle of the day, we generally talk about what works best and what doesn't work. And they tell me when there's issues and they'll say, Hey, this might work better because of whatever reason.

00:25:30:46 - 00:25:59:45
Nathaniel
And I'll consider it and I'll try it out. But food, food ideas just come from... I know that some flavor combinations just work incredibly together. I, I, I just sort of try them out and, you know, make them into a toastie and if it tastes good then great and if not, then I'll try it in a panino, and if not, then I just I just discard it.

00:25:59:45 - 00:26:12:27
Nathaniel
But generally it's you know conversations, and some of the staff will say, hey, this looks really good, could we do a chicken cotoletta, for instance in a panino, and It’s like, no, I can't do a chicken cotoletta.

00:26:12:27 - 00:26:15:05
Genevra
What part of Italy are your family from?

00:26:15:05 - 00:26:23:52
Nathaniel
Dad’s from Naples. Mum's family is from Compania region. Dad’s from the city.

00:26:24:15 - 00:26:24:28
Genevra
Okay.

00:26:26:26 - 00:26:52:54
Nathaniel
We love, you know, of pork products... the schnitzel, the cotoletta... we love those as well. But you know, we don't we don't have a kitchen, but we, we do a breakfast panino on a Saturday. Something as simple as sous vide eggs, which is so cool when you think about it.

00:26:52:54 - 00:27:05:29
Nathaniel
It's just eggs cooked in a water bath in a vacuum sealed bag. And there you are- scrambled eggs. We do pancetta with that. And chili honey mushrooms and a chili cheese on a brioche.

00:27:06:48 - 00:27:11:22
Genevra
If I wasn't on a low carb diet, I’d be all over it.

00:27:12:32 - 00:27:43:56
Nathaniel
Yeah. So the ideas are not hard to come by. And how do I say it - I don't have all the equipment to make a full, you know, full kitchen breakfast or full cooked meal, but we can still make do with a few different things that we have. A lot of kids are telling me, oh I really want a meatball sandwich or a meatball sauce panino, and my mum said to me this morning, hey Nathaniel, when I do my special panino, can I do a meatball sandwich?

00:27:43:56 - 00:27:47:32
Nathaniel
I was like, you know what mum, that's going to be a killer sandwich.

00:27:48:00 - 00:28:00:25
Genevra
100%. So you do seem like someone that likes to at least try stuff out, because I do remember I don't know if it was like a year or two ago there was someone selling bread here.

00:28:00:27 - 00:28:22:39
Nathaniel
Yeah, a friend of ours, Anthony, and he was working here for a while too. He was making his bread and then selling it here on a Saturday. It was an opportunity for him. I gave him the space to sell it. But, you know, he worked here. He worked his ass off here on weekdays. I pushed him hard.

00:28:22:44 - 00:28:43:48
Nathaniel
And, you know, he was able to sell his product here, but that was cool because people got a different understanding of what we're about. I'm not just making coffees day to day. He has a passion in sourdough, and and he still does it at home-- less selling it. But I think he's trying to perfect it.

00:28:44:06 - 00:28:46:12
Genevra
Yeah I bought a loaf. It was pretty good.

00:28:46:16 - 00:28:48:52
Nathaniel
Yes, delicious. His fruit loaf was the best.

00:28:49:19 - 00:28:50:15
Genevra
I haven't tried that.

00:28:50:43 - 00:28:56:20
Nathaniel
He based it off a Panettone recipe and I miss that. I think I still have some in the freezer at home.

00:28:56:57 - 00:29:11:11
Genevra
And he had a lovely personality. Obviously you attract, you know you have just good natured kind people around you. Your staff are always super friendly and approachable.

00:29:11:15 - 00:29:37:26
Nathaniel
Yeah, I've worked at so many places where you have a whole range of people either behind the counter or in front with the customers. Generally, people who are rude don't hang around for very long. I welcome everybody equally, but you won't see rude people here. And if they're rude, they won't be rude for very long because they end up loving us so much.

00:29:38:17 - 00:30:05:58
Nathaniel
It's funny because we had an old lady that used to come in and roll her eyes and now she's like one of our favorite customers. So I think we attract really friendly people and really friendly customers and the customers... I think they'll talk to each other because it's like a community. Like I said before, they all come in and they all sort of know each other and they've been you know, with us since the beginning.

00:30:06:50 - 00:30:33:41
Nathaniel
But the staff are much the same. They've been, you know, half of them were customers once upon a time. One of my staff that just left, she was a customer in the beginning and she stayed with me for two and a half years. A new staff, some new staff have were customers beforehand. So I really I just want really friendly people who want to do who want to be working and want to, you know, do what I do.

00:30:34:13 - 00:30:42:15
Nathaniel
And it's hard to get people who really have that drive to be in hospitality. But when you got them, you just got to hold onto them.

00:30:42:15 - 00:31:02:34
Genevra
And what I wanted to say about you is you've got one of these smiles that like you can tell that you love your job, you can tell that you love your business and you know how you've built it up. And when I've come in a few times and you know, you give me your big, big smile, and even if you're fucking busy, and you can’t talk.

00:31:02:54 - 00:31:09:40
Genevra
There's so much in your smile. Honestly, it's like I've had a conversation with you just from your smile.

00:31:09:45 - 00:31:17:01
Nathaniel
You're coming into my shop and that's all that matters. Like, you don't have to be buying anything. You come in and say hello, that's cool.

00:31:17:34 - 00:31:46:39
Genevra
And you really feel that when when, when you're behind the counter doing your thing, you. Yeah. You really feel that. So thanks. Paying you a compliment. Thank you. And my last question is let’s say, where you were five years ago... If you were chatting to someone that was in that position, what would, what advice would you have?

00:31:48:05 - 00:31:59:00
Genevra
So if someone wanted to start their own business... Let’s be a bit more specific. They want to start their own cafe.

00:31:59:36 - 00:32:30:01
Nathaniel
Well, me, five years ago I was literally in the middle of planning my cafe. The things that set me back were regulations, council regulations and things that I had no idea about were what was allowed and what was what you could and couldn't do. It's hard to give advice on something on a on a broad subject because for me it’s very specific towards hospitality.

00:32:30:01 - 00:33:01:27
Nathaniel
It's it's smaller. It was although a big space, there was not much involved. But I did mention that the council that was a headache to deal with them. They were slow to reply. They didn't give me, you know, very solid feedback. They didn’t give me clear answers, they didn’t give me clear questions that they wanted from me. It was very--that was the most difficult thing that I had to deal with.

00:33:01:37 - 00:33:22:17
Nathaniel
And yet Lidia helped me with a lot of that and everything that she helped me with was, you know, applications and and remembering what applications needed to be done. And I, I know it sounds so vague, but still so complex.

00:33:22:38 - 00:33:41:12
Genevra
Sounds like in those moments when, you know, when you want to start the business because you've got that passion and then you're stuck in that, you start dealing with the, you know, the regulations and sometimes you can lose your drive in those moments and if you don’t have that someone giving you that support...

00:33:41:27 - 00:34:11:14
Nathaniel
Yeah, I didn't realize how much was involved. And even things from the bank, they only wanted to make sure you could pay the loan. They didn't care so much about you - if the business would survive and they, they were too vague in what they required or what you're required to do. They weren't going to approve my loan for the business until everything was finalized.

00:34:11:14 - 00:34:41:41
Nathaniel
And I was with one particular bank that required so many different details. And although banks probably do today, more so than ever before, you know, things like the fees and the monthly taxes and quarterly bas and occ health and safety, your work safety, insurance, superannuation-

00:34:41:41 - 00:34:44:42
Genevra
Yeah I’m ready to retire just hearing you say all of that.

00:34:44:42 - 00:34:58:31
Nathaniel
Yeah, things you know of but you don't know how frequent it comes up, you know, it's sort of like if I knew what was involved, I probably would have taken a little bit longer to start up.

00:34:59:09 - 00:34:59:56
Genevra
Interesting.

00:35:00:44 - 00:35:27:30
Nathaniel
Although I like things laid out on paper, I also like a bit of a surprise element because like I said, I didn't know about half those things that were involved, the applications and the council regulations. But had I known these things from the beginning, I probably would have been hesitant to start. (Laugh) So yeah, it's a bit of a double edged sword.

00:35:27:30 - 00:35:35:13
Nathaniel
Like where do you go? I mean, do you start the business? Do you just like, oh, maybe just hold off? I mean, it sounds ridiculous.

00:35:35:13 - 00:36:04:41
Genevra
I'm a big fan of just jumping in and doing it and figuring it out as you go along. Yeah, but, you know, I've been close to people who don't believe in doing things that way and they couldn't think of anything worse. But if I know everything that's involved, I won't do it. I won’t do it. You know, let's be honest, the only reason why I asked you to be on my podcast was to get like a free Portuguese tart.

00:36:04:46 - 00:36:08:14
Nathaniel
Please, have one if you want...

00:36:08:18 - 00:36:14:05
Genevra
Can we show-- I don't know if you can actually see-I’ll take a photo and

00:36:14:14 - 00:36:15:04
Nathaniel
(laugh)

00:36:15:09 - 00:36:26:48
Genevra
put it in the show notes. These are awesome. And so many times I've come in here on my diet and, you know, I see the tart, and my diet just goes out the window.

00:36:26:58 - 00:36:49:48
Nathaniel
Talking of community, I've asked my sister to supply me with a lot of cakes and family has been really important for me. And we went through so many different cakes that were going to work for the shop. She supplies me with a brownie, that is gluten free. Passionfruit slices also gluten free, a lemon slice, which is vegan, which is delicious and lemony.

00:36:50:01 - 00:37:12:28
Nathaniel
She does a cake or a tart every week. She does banana bread, she does the cookies, the peanut butter choc chip cookies, melting monte, which now my mum bakes because she has a lot of fun making them. But in one of the first weeks, probably the first weekend that we opened, this couple came in with their two kids from down the road and bought a latte and a long black and a couple of baby chinos.

00:37:12:55 - 00:37:36:19
Nathaniel
And I remember their order and they came down with the stroller and I think they tagged us in a post saying like - awesome new cafe in the area. Their names are Frank and Sylvie, and then next weekend they came in with a tray of Portuguese tarts and these things are hot. These things are piping hot. Lidia and I were working and there were seven Portuguese tarts.

00:37:36:19 - 00:37:55:03
Nathaniel
They said, ‘Oh, hey, we have a product that we sell.’ They've got a fruit and veg shop in Hollywood Plaza. ‘Why don’t you try these out? We live down the road. They're very, you know, they're freshly made.’ I said, ok, cool. Oh they make the tarts? Yeah. My sister loves them as much as I do.

00:37:55:06 - 00:37:57:25
Genevra
They're literally perfect.

00:37:57:30 - 00:38:21:00
Nathaniel
They are. I tried one and I looked at Lidia, and I was like, you gotta try this. And she tried it. And then we had another one, and then we shared another one. And then I was like, I've got to have another one. And then we’re like, shit, we better save one for Mum. So we saved one for mum. And I said to the guys, Frank and Sylvie, you guys, this is incredible.

00:38:21:44 - 00:38:23:22
Nathaniel
I want them as soon as you can get them to me.

00:38:23:22 - 00:38:25:02
Genevra
Oh that's great.

00:38:25:02 - 00:38:29:03
Nathaniel
I walk down to their house every morning. It's literally the end of the street.

00:38:29:41 - 00:38:33:43
Genevra
I see you sometimes. You actually walk there?

00:38:33:44 - 00:38:39:53
Nathaniel
Do my little ‘tart time’ on Instagram These things are... incredible.

00:38:40:12 - 00:38:55:07
Genevra
I was like-- we could just do 5 minutes of crunching while we eat it, but... we won’t do that. Well that's a great way to wrap this up. So thank you. Thanks again for being on the show.

00:38:55:41 - 00:39:02:17
Nathaniel
My pleasure. And thanks for asking me to do this interview. I was a bit hesitant-a bit nervous at first and then I thought, oh shut up Nathaniel, you’ll get talking.

00:39:02:17 - 00:39:19:20
Genevra
You seemed really afraid when I asked you, but really it was that when I just saw what was happening with your customers coming in and the way that you smile and greet them, I thought, I want to definitely want to explore this with you. So thank you so much.

00:39:19:39 - 00:39:21:15
Nathaniel
And I thank you. Appreciate it.